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 Possible 'Exploration Division'

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Kugis Borgir

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PostSubject: Re: Possible 'Exploration Division'   Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:27 pm

Vampyre wrote:
I have to disagree with you on every thing you said. Most MMO's when they say class specific then mean just that. Also as mentioned by Cryptic the 3 job classes also effect the ship as well. If you play a medical officer and use a escort ship you will not be as effective as a tac. officer using a escort ship.

I recomend look at the tatics vids on the STO site they explain alot about how the ships work but also how your officer and others on the ship effect it. It is safe to say that a Engineer like your self would do much better in a crusier than a medical officer but would not do so bad in a escort. Granted a tack officer would not do so bad in a crusier but would do much better in a escort.

You are making asumptions based on little to known facts. But again watch the vids and your post would change.

I've watched the starship tactics videos several times each since they came out and while I am not trying to turn this into a flame war by any stretch of the imagination, I do plan to defend my position by citing references to the various interview/videos Cryptic has released. For now, I'll just be covering individual captains and space combat abilities. If you wish to continue this discourse, Vampyre, I would be happy to debate in the truest sense of the word, presenting arguments in a civil manner and citing references to support our respective positions. But if we do so, it should probably be on a new thread to keep this one from getting way off-topic.

First off, in regards to the "job classes" or "career paths" and space combat, please take note of this quote from the "Starship Tactics Part 1" video. "So, your configuration of your ship, defines something but it's really the equipment: the weapons, deflector dish, impulse engines, the consoles that you equip on your ship as well as the bridge officer that is activated at that time that really define how you play in combat." - Craig Zinkievich, "Starship Tactics Part 1", 2:43-2:58

There is no mention in any part of the video referring to one's "job class" or "career path" making any kind of substantial difference in space combat. Part 2 of the starship tactics video makes reference to different "classes" or "configurations" of ships (ex. escort, cruiser, science) being used for specific purposes. However it does not say (or even allude to) anything about not being able to use a ship outside of the role it was designed for, not to say that there wouldn't be any kind of penalties for doing so. One example of such penalties is that in most RPGs is dual-wielding weapons, if you are not trained to do so, you get a penalty to your attack roll. Building upon that example, if you have a two handed weapon that you are trained for, but loot two one handed weapons that are better, even though you're not trained for dual-wielding if your gear is good enough you could end up doing better with what your not trained for than the lower quality weapon for which you have training unless you're explicitly forbidden to dual-wield. On a related note, Cryptic has stated countless times that your "job class" or "career path" will not be the only factor in what ship configuration/class/type you use. Furthermore, in this interview with tentonhammer the following was stated: "So in space now it’s more of a composition of all your officers and what abilities you have trained them in."

You are correct, Vampyre, in saying that I am making assumptions, but I hardly ever say something, under these circumstances, is an undeniable fact. I tend to use a lot of qualifiers like "it's my understanding", "I believe" or "from what I hear" unless I am certain that I'm correct and they are all based on something straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. The references provided above (and others which I did not have links handy for, so they were omitted from the discussion) lead me to believe that it is absolutely possible to have players using whatever kind of ship they want effectively, regardless of their "job class" or "career path" provided components and bridge officers are properly configured. Now, that's a big "if" as to whether or not most players will actually be able to figure-out how to make it work, but it should work with a little creativity and number crunching.

Questions? Comments? Ifso, post away!

EDIT: One other quote from AskCryptic that I thought should be thrown into the discussion:
"Will our choice of ships be limited by our chosen specialty as captain? So, for example, Defiants and Akiras are usable only by tactical captains, Nova and Nebula for science, etc.?

No, not at all. You can train and advance in any ship class, or even in multiple ship classes. Certainly your skills and abilities – and those of your Bridge Officers – will affect your ship in many ways, as will your ship modifications. So expect to see lots of permutations."

EDIT#2: Here's another quote from AskCryptic that clarifies some of what I was talking about with the "penalties" for using a ship that is outside of your chosen career path:
"Each ship has a seating chart. The type of ship you’re using determines how many Bridge Officers of a certain type you can sit. Escorts have more tactical seats, Science ships have more science seats and Cruisers have more engineering seats.

As a working example, let’s take the Prometheus class Escort, you have Commander tactical station, one Lieutenant Commander tactical station and one Ensign tactical station. You also have one Lieutenant engineering station and one Lieutenant science station. What each ranked station means is Bridge Officers will only be able to access abilities from each rank’s ability group. (So if you put a Lieutenant Commander Science Bridge Officer in the available Lieutenant science station, he’ll only be able to execute abilities as though he were a Lieutenant. This is there to reflect a specific ship’s design and capabilities. The Prometheus is designed with firepower in mind, not scientific discovery.)
..."
That basically means that, as I was saying all along in my example, there is no reason that a tactical player wouldn't be able to use a science ship, but in order to use it as well as an escort would require careful planning of bridge officer abilities and ship system components.

EDIT#3: While I'm not able to quote or reference a particular source, it seems upon further study that the ships themselves make more of an impact on the ability to "cross-class" than I initially understood. That being said, it still sounds like the points I brought-up before have not been contradicted, but it won't be nearly as easy to make such a set-up work as I have been saying.
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Kugis Borgir

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PostSubject: Re: Possible 'Exploration Division'   Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:05 pm

So, after doing a bit of research and conversing on the forums with other fleet members, I have reached the conclusion that the truth about the whole whole "cross-class" ship and captain lies somewhere between what Vampyre and I were saying. It seems that the real bottom line is that "cross-classing" or "hybrid-classing" can be done, however it should only be used in solo settings or in a group setting when getting someone who is designed for a given role is not an option. Also, not being able to get someone who is designed for the role should be a pretty rare situation.
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